Then the next day she defended her comment, after an internet crap storm, basically by saying she is sorry if she offended anyone, but she believes she's being biblically correct.
My question is, if she wants to be biblically correct about the one thing, what on earth is she doing in the Miss California contest? Strikes me as a little hypocritical. Well, more than a little actually.
Also, for some really, really odd reason, Perez Hilton is a judge. He's one of these celebrity bloggers, and he's a big fat idiot. Have the standards for these things really sunk so low? What an odd, odd world we live in.
I must be missing something....how is competeing for Miss USA hypocritical? I think the question should be, why is the heat of this going on her head for answering the question honestly? Perez Hilton (an IDIOT and a known gay) should be asked why he was asking a political question in such an arena? Was his agenda to get her to lie? If he is so politically correct and tolerant why is he blasting and discriminating her for having an opinion different from his? An opinion shared by the majority of Californians. Gloria Alred has jumped on the bandwagon with her opinion and that alone sums up the idiocy of it all.
ReplyDeleteI don't even know who Gloria Alred is.
ReplyDeletePerez... he's just a giant idiot and there's nothing else to say.
And to clarify the hypocritical comment, what I meant was that she said she thought it was biblically correct to answer that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and my point was I don't think it's biblically correct to have a beauty pageant in the first place. So if you're going to be a contestant in one, why not try to win the stupid thing and say what the judges want to hear.
It's just impossible to take any of it seriously.
my shoulder is soooo hurt I shouldn't even be on here, BUT....I am with Di...i don't see the connection. where does the Bible make any sort of a stand against beauty pageants. while it does say that a woman should not be interested ONLY in the outward adornment of her body, it does not say she is not to do such a thing. while it is vert clear that marriage is for a man a woman.....she was asked for her "opinion" and she gave it which she later pointed out she had no bad feelings or anything for gay people just that marriage in her opinion was for a man and a woman. I think it took courage and integrity that she was not willing to compromise her beliefs and standards and faith bt saying what might have cost her the pageant. she will live with herself much easier this way. I admire her...
ReplyDeleteI spelled her name wrong it is Allred. She is the big mouth woman attorney who is always horning in anywhere to get publicity.
ReplyDeleteThe garments worn by those girls are expensive, shiny, alluring, and designed to catch the eye. They make men lust and they make women feel bad.
ReplyDeleteThere is no way on earth any understanding of Jesus' laws, rules, or philosophy could include condoning a contest to that judges and rewards women for their physical beauty. It's not even arguable.
I Tim 2:9 (NIV)
Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.
If you're gonna pick a bean, you gotta be ready to eat the whole burrito.
Good one on the burrito comment. And intially I was feeling like perhaps she was competing more on the level of a "wholesome" Miss America. But when I recall the newsclip of her swimsuit walk there's no question. You're right John, and I think that by her wearing that, she is by all means encouraging the wrong thoughts and ideas from men.
ReplyDeleteyah, probably right...I do need to take into account how she probably effects the men viewing her...
ReplyDeleteI don't even think it's just the men viewing her. Take that out of it, it's still just not acceptable.
ReplyDeleteIt's pure VANITY to presume you're the most beautiful woman (or person or whichever) in a group of beautiful women, and think you deserve recognition and fame and money as a reward.
It's hypocrisy.
When I'm at work commenting on these things I can't really take the time to respond as well as I'd like to.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying I have anything against beauty pageants. I personally think they're stupid and a waste of time, but I realize people enjoy them and I don't begrudge anyone the enjoyment.
I just think this girl is an idiot. She may well be an idiot who happened to have a minor point, (if you take it out of context), but she's still an idiot. You don't parade around in a G string and then answer a question by pointing out what God wants.
It BEGS someone to point out God doesn't want their to be a Miss California in the first place, so why is she observant of God's views on gay marriage, but either A: could care less what God thinks about modesty and vanity and arrogance, etc., or B: she's so stupid and hypocritical that she doesn't even realize how far off track she is.
If the standard of dress is to avoid what would make men lust, then attractive women should go around shrouded at all times. I really think it took a lot of integrity to answer the way she did, especally when she had so much on the line.
ReplyDeleteI think shrouded is a bit much. There's a difference to being attractive and being half nude on stage.
ReplyDeleteAnd there's the heart of it , Di, the beating heart.
ReplyDeleteCheck this out...
http://thesuperficial.com/2009/04/miss_california_defends_hersel.php
She's not shrouded. She's not half nude either. She's about 97.4% nude.
You can't wear that outfit and then talk about what God wants people to do. You just can't.
Did it really take integrity to answer the way she did? Maybe it did, maybe it just took a girl who got asked a question and answered it and has never spent more then five consecutive minutes in her LIFE thinking about why she believes what she believes. I sense the latter.
Perez Hilton obviously just wanted to put her on the spot with that question, because now everyone on the internet and media is talking about Perez talk about him justifying him asking her that, now hes on the internet and media being interviewed and he is loving it, stop giving him what he wants and stop talking about it. He not only asked the question sneakily by saying 4 states have legalized gay marriage, do you think the rest of the states should follow? but he knew if she didn't compromise her answer by saying "it should be left to each individual state to decide whether or not it should allow gay marriage." because if were talking about the most controversial subject in America, if you choose a side, you loose.
ReplyDeleteshe should have simply said "each individual state should have the right to decide if they want to allow gay marriage or not, and i personally follow my states opinion in believing marriage should be between a man and a women.
that way not only does she get to speak her opinion, she doesn't loose.
basically, perez is a loser, and she should have been prepared for that question being miss california.
owell, who cares, its just a beauty pageant. i don't see the need for the internet and media going crazy over something so stupid.
Pretty much agree ant. I'm just not as eager to let her off the hook as you are for some reason. Probably not a good reason either.
ReplyDeletei think beauty pageants are vain. however..... the subject is a bit of a slippery slope. there might be many things in my life that a first century chrisitan would find vain, extravagant, perhaps even sinful. again, i think the premise of a beauty pageant is vain, i wouldn't want capri or donatella (definitely not jd) in one.......however....i could see how someone could justify it and really believe that there was nothing wrong with it. because there isn't a verse that would directly say that beauty pageants are wrong, you have to leave it to God's conviction and the principle's of verses like the one quoted from 1 timothy to convince people.
ReplyDeletenow,
homosexuality is something the Bible is quite clear about.
there are a lot of (almost all) rated r movies that i won't watch. some christians think i'm too legalistic and strict.....on the other hand some christians think i'm wild for compromising on some rated r movies, or even watching movies at all. there are many verses that would apply to the subject, but not one the would specifically address it.
marriage and homosexuality are specifically addressed. and while i feel like beauty pageants are vain, i'm impressed with someone who threw the competition because she refused to pretend like she didn't know what the Bible said.
For me, she was being a hypocrite. She likes the Bible when it says gays shouldn't marry, she doesn't like it so much when it says she shouldn't dress a certain way or act a certain way.
ReplyDeleteHow can you possibly think that you know what is in her mind and what her personal convictions are? All we do know is that, she answered the question true to her beliefs, when she could have easily dodged it and not really have said anything at all. That is what a hypocrite would have done.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what's in her mind or what her convictions are.
ReplyDeleteI do know two facts about her life that don't fit together. 1. She walks around in a G string to wow the judges into voting her the most beautiful girl in the contest, and 2. She says gay people shouldn't marry because God says it's wrong.
If she believes the Bible when it says gay people should not marry, why doesn't she believe I Tim 2:9? Is that part of the Bible less true than the part where it says things she likes?
Or is it just that part of the Bible subject to interpretation, but the parts about homosexuality being a sin are not subject to interpretation?
She's cherry picking the passages in the Bible, believing the ones that don't inconvenience her, like gay people getting married, and ignoring the parts that indicate her whole way of life is sin.
Is there a better word than hypocrisy that I'm not thinking of?
I hardly think her whole way of life is sin because she is in a beauty pageant....And I don't see her swim suit as LITERALLY a G string...or was it??? On the other hand, there are soooo many people at the beaches or many many places in public dressed that way as well. Are they all "in sin"??? Once again, I think a literal G string is not appropriate public attire where ever you are, but a bikini not so much. Mel has wore many a bikini to the beach and to swim and so did I many MANY years ago. I don't think that meant we were living in sin....I think EVERY THING in this category is up to personal conviction....as like Jim said movies, an occasional glass of wine, make up of any sort, some books, etc. etc. And SOME things the Bible is VERY clear on, like sexual immorality, drunkeness (not a single glass of wine) and marriage being between a man and a woman....now I would NOT have wanted Mel in a Miss California contest (or any beauty contest for that matter) as a model for swimsuits or underwear, or really even as an actress....but "IF" she had chosen any of these things, (which she was pretty enough to have done) I would have not thought she was in sin as my reason for not wanting her to do them....HOWEVER had she chosen to live with Mike instead of marrying him, or had wanted to marry Amanda, I would have told her quite clearly she would definitely be "living in sin"....some lines have to be drawn....but others aren't quite so cut and dry....you know this, I don't know why you are arguing it....
ReplyDeleteAnd if wearing a skimpy bathing suit for other to admire or see means you are "living in sin" so should be going somewhere where you are sure to view someone in one. Is everyone at the beach or swimming publicly "IN SIN"....??? Some people think so...I don't see you in this category so are you a hypocrite?? Are people who go to bars and nightclubs and have a drink or two and dance "living in sin", some people certainly think so, but you certainly don't, does that make you a hypocrite?? Are people who go to an occasional movie where there is strong violence, bad language, and nudity living in sin?? Again, some people think so, but I don't think you do....are these people hypocrites too?? Are people who wear elaborate make up and jewelery "living in sin" again, some people think so, are we then all hypocrites then??? My point being there is arguments on both sides (from the Bible) that could support these things....but for others there are NO ARGUMENT for.....murder, lying, sexual immorality, homosexuality (which would include same sex marriage obviously) and gossip and envy. Some things are VERY CLEAR AND FIRMLY stated....and others are left more to personal conviction and interpretation....this makes it difficult to say the least....it's something each person has to work out between them and their Lord...that's why in my opinion to say you "know" that this girl is being a hypocrite is not right....Maybe she is....Maybe the Lord has tried to deal with her personally about wearing such suits for people to admire and she has chosen to ignore it, but who are we to judge that?? Maybe some things are cut and dried to her (as they are to me) and she couldn't go there with the same sex marriage thing and she said so....Maybe this was God's way of saying..."I told you not to be in that contest!!" and maybe not....again, who are we to say???
ReplyDeleteBeing in a pageant isn't something she went and did one time.
ReplyDeleteBeing Miss California is her occupation. That's why I called it her lifestyle.
This has nothing to do with me personally. I was talking about Miss California, she's the one who shared her opinions on national television. I didn't enter the Mrs. USA contest, so Perez Hilton didn't ask me any questions.
ReplyDeleteIf we're talking about me, I don't think there's anything truly, deeply morally wrong with being in a beauty pageant. I think they're dumb and I wish they didn't exist, but they do, which is not a big deal for me.
I'm not talking about me or what I say or what I think, I'm talking about the Bible says, and I guess I can't really believe I've had to build such an elaborate case for why God wouldn't want there to be a beauty pageant. The reason I'm talking about what the Bible says is that it's the Bible that this girl cited as the basis for her opinion. NOT because I think my own life is some kind of model for correct Biblical behavior.
Really. Does that actually even need to be said? As a general rule, what's happening in a discussion when it devolves to personal questions?
There's no way you can read and understand the new testament account of Jesus and believe he would condone the Mrs. USA contest.
God wants us to be meek. God wants us to be modest. God wants us to be chaste. God hates prideful hearts. God hates arrogance. I can't imagine I need to list Bible verses to to make that case.
Beauty pageants are not meek. Look up the word. Beauty pageants are not modest, they are not chaste, they encourage lust, they encourage prideful hearts, they encourage arrogance.
What they do is put cash in a woman's pocket as a reward for being physically beautiful. Women walk around in bikinis, people judge them, and the winner is paid cash. As a reward for looking the best in a bikini. Not altogether unlike what takes place in a strip club. Except that in a strip club they're very upfront about what they're doing.
These silly contests came under fire during the early part of the feminine equality movement for being so blatantly sexist, and to keep them alive they tried to make it more about community service and volunteerism and alot of other nonsense that goes right alongside the evening gown competition and the swimsuit competition. Because community service and volunteering have so much to do with evening gowns and bikinis. They try to say it's about developing self-confidence, but I don't know what self-confidence has to do with judging who has the prettiest face, or the best boobs and butt. That's to say nothing of the wealth of sociological data in support of the idea that the promotion of this kind of idealized feminine image of beauty does very serious damage to the self-esteem and self-confidence of young girls.
The Bible is against it. The Bible doesn't use the word beauty pageant because in 33AD they'd have crushed your skull with rocks for even suggesting the idea of something so lewd and blatantly sexist and carnal in nature.
I don't think this falls into a gray area.
And IF IT DOES fall into a gray area, why does it? What part of I Tim 2:9 is a gray area? Which word is ambiguous?
You make a good case....BUT I am still not totally convinced it is not "gray"....everyone capitalizes on what God gave them which in this case is beauty....what about the atheletes who are paid HUGE amounts of money, serve as a role models just because they are gifted at sports?? What about talented singers and rock stars etc,?? What about those gifted with superior brains who can do things most of us could only dream of??? So they are pretty.....and it brings them perks like money and some fame?? Soooo??? There is something wrong with beauty pageants no doubt....it does encourage all the things you say.....and as a Christian I probably would have not felt right about it (no forget that, "I" would have never had the beauty in the first place) I would not have wanted Mel to be in one for all the reasons you listed....BUT I honestly do not feel I would have felt she was "sinning" to be in one....I really don't...
ReplyDeleteThis is simple, not complicated. We're not talking about athletes and rock stars, we're talking about Miss California, and what she does and what she said.
ReplyDeleteIf all you can commit to saying is that its a grey area, there's nothing left to talk about. You can say almost anything is a grey area. You either believe I Tim 2:9 or you don't believe it. And I think you do believe it.
We agree that 1 + 1 = 2, and we agree on the 1 and the 1. You're just not willing to take the final step and say 1 + 1 = 2. I don't know why not.